#ShowUsYourLeave: Behind the viral campaign that made companies rethink paid leave

When Lisa Dallenbach joined theSkimm as Chief People Officer, she wasn’t just leading HR - she was helping steer a company whose very mission was to give women the information they need to live their best lives.

While she was there, one campaign in particular made a lasting impact. 

In 2021, after the federal Build Back Better bill - which included paid family leave - failed to pass, theSkimm decided to do something about it.

That’s when the Show Us Your Leave campaign was born.

What started as a simple call-to-action became a viral movement that reshaped how companies talked about paid leave. 

Hundreds of organizations, from startups to Fortune 500 companies, began publicly sharing their paid leave policies, sparking a wave of transparency that pressured employers to do better.

In this episode, Lisa shares the story behind Show Us Your Leave - and how a moment of frustration became a national conversation. 

We also talk about what it was like to lead HR at a fast-growing, mission-driven brand, how to balance social impact with business focus, and her go-to parenting hack as a mom of three.

Allison: Welcome to the False Tradeoff podcast. Lisa, I am so excited to finally have you here and talk to you.

Lisa: Yeah, I'm so thrilled to be here. I know we've been really looking forward to catching up on this topic today. So I'm thrilled to be here.

Allison: And I say finally, because I started Parentally back in 2019 and obviously knew about theSkimm, but I would say our world really merged with theSkimm’s world back in 2021 when you all released, I don't even know if released is the right word, but you introduced the show us your leave campaign. And that would go on to, in my opinion, change the course of history, no, but of really so many people's lives, policies at major companies. 

And so for me, this is really exciting to have this conversation because so much of that work that you were a major part of was so fundamental to not just my work, but I just feel like we're so aligned in our missions and how we think about the world. So without further ado, I'm gonna dive into these questions. Where did that idea come from? The #ShowUsYourLeave campaign.

Lisa: Yeah, you know, and I have to give credit to, we have such a creative team overall at theSkimm, and it's a really unique place to work, unique place to work in that people really love what they do. Like I write, I code, whatever that is, but we are so wedded to that mission of giving women the information they need to live their best lives. so that really came about when the Build Back Better campaign died, did not happen, and we just found ourselves and our audience, you we have a really good relationship with our audience and you know, there was a lot of very disheartened about that. And we just thought like there has to be a way in the private sector we can do better and not let this important initiative die. And how can we do that? 

And listen, we recognize and take it incredibly seriously that we do have a relationship with millions of women and take that very seriously in terms of what we do and how we support them. And so we really thought we've got to be able to do something better. And so we just started thinking about it in a meeting and our content team was like how can we get out there and understand what is out there and how we can make leave something that is better and more supportive in the corporate and the private sector since we were not getting that support more broadly.

Allison: And then how did this start? Like, did you just sort of put a post, like, did you publish something? I’m so curious about the inner workings, how it snowballed then.

Lisa: Yeah, you know something, so I think it was not only our skimm readers, but overall many women were so disheartened and you know, it's kind of a one-on-one of marketing. We were posting on Instagram, we were posting in our stories, we were putting it in the Daily Skimm and talking about like, hey, show us your leave. And with the idea that it would not only put pressure on other companies to take a look and ourselves included.

I mean, here's the thing, we have a very generous leave policy, but even we said, you know what, let's step back and can we be better? And we did, we revised our policy to include, this is something I was really proud of because it personally came from my experience. We added NICU leave, which is the concept that if you have a baby in the NICU, it doesn't start until you get home with the baby. 

Cause anyone who's had a baby in the NICU knows it's like this alter universe. You're like, you're just so in that. And then you come home and if all of a sudden you only have a month, once you get home with the baby. So even we, it was the question of like, how can any of us do a little bit better? Even if you think you have a great policy, how can it be better? And for those of you that don't, it was a little bit of pressure. Like, come on, like put something in place to support your employee and your dads as well. Like how do you support family in even a better way? 

Also, this was the piece that was so inspiring and incredible was to have people learn what it could look like. So the minute I show you what it looks like. And we had so many people that wrote in and got in touch with us and said, my gosh, I saw that this and that company did this. And so I was able to put together a leave policy and framework and take that to my HR team for the first time. And so that actually, I have to say, was one of the more inspiring pieces, how many people took pieces from everybody. And that was really great.

We're all then becoming this shared community of corporations, of organizations saying, this is our policy. How can we make it better and sharing it so that it can be a broader initiative?

Allison: I can't even tell you how many people have told us that they used that #ShowUsYourLeave database to make a case and get better leave. And it's almost like silly that this didn't exist before. It's like it changed everything for so many people. And the number of meetings that I would have with companies where I swear when this first went out and went viral, every HR leader I talked to, we'd say, what's going on with parental leave?

Every single one of them would say, we looked at the #ShowUsYourLeave database and we're a little behind. And so we're updating it. It was amazing how often we heard that. I'm wondering, did you get any pushback? Were there any problems? Was anyone upset about that?

Lisa: No. Really our reader base was thrilled with it. Our employees were thrilled with it. So our clients were thrilled with it. So we didn't. But I think the point you make is a really good one, because a lot of people put their leave in place or many policies and then they sort of like, it's in place and they forget it they don't look at it. 

‍And so, if you think about it, it sort of did three things. It helped people feel a little bit of pressure and remind them, like, gosh, maybe I can do this better. It helped people who never had one before, gave them all sorts of frameworks and examples to think about. And then certainly put pressure on companies that didn't have one at all that this is something you need to be doing. 

‍So to your question earlier, it really snowballed a bit, sometimes you just hit those moments where you have a broader population sentiment that is disappointed that something didn't get passed and angry and frustrated and has emotions about it and it's personal to them. And then you have us out there, which we have a broad purview in the marketplace and we're very careful and our audience really trusts us and we're very careful about how we talk to them and what we say, and that it's very vetted and we don't go talk to them unless it's something really important and we think will resonate with them and it did. 

‍And so all of that sort of played together in a moment in time and just snowballed. Once you had, and we had a lot of big companies in there participating as well. And so once that started, it's like momentum in those moments where I wouldn't say it went viral, so to speak, but it did, it picked up steam as it went. 

And so that was really, really just so gratifying because that is theSkimm's mission, right? It is to really help women everywhere. When you see you put something out there that really resonates and everybody picks up and runs with it and you put it out there, it's such a great feeling. Like, as a brand, this is what we are here to do. So it was really a special time. It really was.

Allison: Yeah. I also think what was really cool was to see that huge companies were then posting on their corporate accounts bragging about being on theSkimm’s list and saying, here's our leave. Companies are now pushing other companies to do it. It was just so cool to see that. I think it is probably the single best way that any company, I mean, when you think about the impact there and how many women and men got leave because of this, it's really incredible.

I also think what's cool about it is, and I don't know if it was like this when you first launched it, but over time it grew to add more things. It wasn't just parental leave, you know, what's your policy? It would ask about non-birth parents, it would ask about adoption, it would ask about fertility support. Was that added in later or how did that come about?

Lisa: Yeah, was when we saw how much that it was really taking off and thinking, thought, wait a second, like, let's really get this conversation to be about all the components of leave and all, is it supporting everyone? And that really, if you think about, you know, from an HR perspective, anything we put in like a leave policy, you want to put things in place that are really supporting your broad population. And so, but you want to look at it and say, is it really being thoughtful? All the way, like for all the different parties. Like it's interesting.

I also think about this with elder care, like the mother, right? Maternity leave, the mother who is pregnant is a very obvious, it's physically obvious, visible. Everybody knows what it is. It's nine months, It's very clear what that is. Like, it's not as clear what that experience is for an adoptive parent. It's not as clear what that is for same sex parents. It's not as clear. So making sure that we were thinking about the ones that were not as clear and obvious and we hadn't thought through, NICU is another one. And how do we then more broadly support that that was another place we really were able to step back and think about, are we having the most inclusive and with the most depth of support that we possibly could. 

And listen, theSkimm, it's interesting because it's such an amazing brand and it still is very unique in that it serves women and their families and the stages in their life. And so yes, when companies said like, made it on theSkimm’s list, of course that was like such a thrill for us because we've been around for a long time. 

Anytime any of us go to the airport, we always laugh because people will be like, oh, I always wear my skimm stuff. Cause people always stop and be like, oh, theSkimm, theSkimm, theSkimm. And it's a reminder to us of the brand and the place it has in the ecosystem. For women in their lives and how important it is for us to continue with what we're doing, if that makes sense. Similar to you guys, you realize, wait, we really have a place in supporting and helping women go through the different stages of their life and what they need.

Allison: Did you ever consider expanding this initiative to do, I don't know, different branches of this work, like consulting with companies or like, was there a temptation to be like, wow, this really struck a nerve, what more can we be doing here?

Lisa: We definitely did. And we had people ask us, but that comes back to, we're a small company. Priority, how do we stay focused? So that actually was something that we didn't pursue at the moment, but was always sort of like, is something that could really be across the board, not just this issue. But like, we have so much learning. We have so much that we've done. How can we plug and play that in for companies that don't have the resources to do it and provide it for their employees? and help them think that through. Whether it's your lead policy or whatever it might be. So we definitely did. We definitely did. And I think that would have been a huge opportunity for us.

Allison: Yeah, it is very different from your core business. It's more like, do you want to follow this theme? But it doesn't really align with the infrastructure of the organization, right? Like, I can just imagine that many companies would come to you and say, help me with this. And it's like, you know.

Lisa: Yeah, I think we saw it as something that if we packaged it and expanded on what it could be, there was a lot we could do there. So it was sort of like, okay, this is something we'd like to do in the future. You know, but yes, we were focused on, because think…you have the daily skimm, you have all the shopping and the e-commerce business. And then we had also just launched skimm Plus, our subscription business. And so we were very focused on those three. 

‍Carla and Danielle are amazing at really being like, okay, focus on what we have, make it great, then add. you know, especially with, I think any company, but a small company when you are in too many places, that becomes challenging. But that really was a very interesting business stream for us that we'd sort of thought about in many ways for the future.

Allison: I'm curious if there were other subjects or different topics that you attempted to replicate the virality of this with, whether that is company policies in a different area or something else. I'm just curious if given the success of the #ShowUsYourLeave campaign, were you like, where else can we run a similar play?

Lisa: We did. I think what we realized though is that the genesis of the moment in the bill not getting passed, the emotions and reactions to it provided such a moment for us to come in and support. And I think that was our learning in that like, not to say you wait for something like that if you see something, but we did not see something as significant as that that we could really get in and as theSkimm and our voice of support for women and women's initiatives that we could get in and really get behind in the way we did this one. 

‍So I think what we did was we really realized, okay, so we as a voice and a brand that, and the interesting thing is like our audience trusts us so deeply, which is a very big compliment. We work hard at that. But in today's state of media, that is a hard thing to accomplish. So you always want to be careful of that. But we had a good playbook. So if that opportunity came again, we knew how to plug and play and go do that.

Allison: Yeah. Was there anything that surprised you about the #ShowUsYourLeave experience?

Lisa: I think to your point, the number of just individuals that reached out and shared their stories. That was always something we said was interesting. Like, should we have shared more of that? Like the number of people that shared like, here's what I put together and I pulled this from, you know, this company and hey, you know, for the first time we're getting at least a monthly, like we never had anything before. And that I think would have been a really neat moment to even just show even more like look what the power of our voices collectively did. I think that would have been a really neat moment to try to leverage leverage is the wrong word. 

But to really continue to inspire us, you know, when you think you have no choices, you do. And sometimes you just need someone to show you what it can look like, which was so I think that surprised us. And, you know, we also had a lot of really disheartening stories of people that we had people sending in videos. I don't know if you saw that one of the women in the delivery room trying to finish their work and doing work in the hospital because they didn't want it to cut into their leave. And you're just like, my gosh, this is so wrong and so broken, right? Like you need to be so in that moment. And so that was surprising when we realized, my gosh, like there are some really absolutely no support in many places. So I think that was a little bit, it was, I wouldn't say a wake up call because we knew that, but it was like a very, wow, yes, this is very real that people need help. People need help and support.

Allison: Let's talk a little bit about, I can't imagine how both challenging and exciting it would be to be the chief people officer of a company that's entire mission is to support women. When you have a largely female workforce, I imagine, that's a lot of pressure on you to figure out how are we going to structure our work to support these employees. 

What are some of the, because I know you've been in HR obviously for a very long time and even before you went to theSkimm. What were some unique pressures that you felt or different ways that you maybe approached your work given not just that you had a lot of women working at the organization, but that's actually your company mission? Like, did that change how you thought about your work?

Lisa: Yeah, you know, it's tempting to have it change how you think about it. And, but I think the one thing that we always as a team tried to lens was what is the right thing to do for the broader organization in terms of broader support. So a very obvious one is that medical benefits support everybody. We'd look at, this isn't necessarily related to women, but like student loans and repaying those, like do we do something broadly? Well, that doesn't really talk to the whole broader population, pet insurance does. So we try to use that lens to stay very practical.

‍I think the bigger challenge, let me start with actually the really great and fun place there is that because of our brand and because our employee population is largely women, it gave so much landscape to go and craft and carve out programs that supported where other companies you'd have a harder time. 

And so we had an amazing childcare program in place with Vivvie and that was terrific because it supported whether you had a newborn or somebody in high school like because those needs are different across that whole lifespan right which we're always trying to look at. So it gave me a very broad landscape to support women in the workplace, but I will say what was challenging was that we are still a brand and a business and we have an audience that we are very dedicated to and we are a, it's very hard right now because the news is seem so biased no matter what you're talking about, but we are a non-biased, non-partisan product and so there would be things that would happen in the news cycle that were related to it. Roe v Wade is a great one that

The most challenging thing was our, for example, our employees really wanted certain things from us as an organization and what we'd be doing in the marketplace. But the reality is, we are a nonpartisan neutral party. are there to give the information. And so that was one of the biggest challenges when there's situations like that. How do you help them understand that our audience, we have people that are happy about Roe v. Wade and people are upset about Roe v. Wade. We have to understand that we have a total audience. And so we need to remain neutral and give them back to our brand mission, the information they need so they can make their best decisions. 

So that's an extreme example, but anything related to that and to women's, especially women's health was really challenging because they want to be, get out there, take a stand, make a difference, do whatever that is. And there was, and there were different opinions. So that actually is an HR leader or in a communication strategy owner is where the biggest challenge was. So I had a lot of leeway in terms of what I could put in place to support women, but challenging, you know, we're still a business and we have an audience that we are dedicated to.

Allison: Yeah, I think that's really interesting because I think that sometimes any organization, and I would put Parentaly in that bucket as well, when you do have such a social mission, it can be hard to figure out what is the right thing to do because we have this mission, but we also are a for-profit company. So if we completely over-index on the mission, then you miss sort of the…iit's like this fine balance that you always need to find.

Lisa: And your success is your past finding that balance and your audience knows you find that balance, right? And your audience trusts you in that. So you really need to be careful with that and you don't want to erode that ever. So it is, it's challenging. I think you articulated that really well.

Allison: Right. Exactly, yeah. What do you think is the next evolution of paid leave? After the #ShowUsYourLeave campaign, you drove this like massive transparency. What comes next? And I don't mean from theSkimm, but just like overall.

Lisa: For that is something that, you know, listen, we want to come back from leave and be the best employee we can be. It actually is self-serving, right, for companies to do that. I think another thing that's worth noting is interesting to me is sort of a consulting. How do you support leave at the company because there's a reality people go out on leave and you have to fill that work. And so how do you do that? That's something else that I think. I think women as well need to be thoughtful about that. And the more we can say like, listen, here's the plan for when I'm out and here's how we're to make this work. I think that helps as well. 

So we are also recognizing it is a business and there are economics around making sure the business continues forward while you're out and what does that look like? And one of the things we did at theSkimm was, because we do have a lot of women that are out, we have a significant number each year, it made sure we had plans in place and that looked different for different business units. We're very much like, I'm going to bring in consultants. We know how that works. 

Other business units, we were very thoughtful about who the talent would step up and how we would start grooming them in the future. We always assumed, I can't remember what our percentage rate was, we always assumed X percentage rate of any department will be out on leave during the year. And so if you go into that, like adding that business lens, I think it is really important for the future as well. So that leave doesn't become such a business hiccup to work through all the time. It can be much more fluid. Like we have a plan, this happens, we know what it is and we deal with it. And then it becomes not so much a, my gosh, someone says, don't leave. What are we going to do? You know, I need to have them back. So I think that's an important piece to keep in mind.

Allison: Yep. Okay, we're going to move into rapid fire. So the goal here is I'm going to ask you a bunch of questions. They won't be too hard. Don't worry. And just quick gut reactions to the questions. I'm going to start with maybe even that your answer might be duplicative to our conversation today. 

What is the policy or process you are most proud of having designed at theSkimm?

Lisa: I think the policy I'm most proud of is one we put in place to really help us understand where our employees are on their career trajectory, where they need development and support and dedicated plans to get them there. We're a small company and so you often, if you aren't very intentional about that, you don't have the obvious places for people to grow and learn. So making sure that we as leaders were very intentional in identifying that and growing people. And sometimes that meant growing them into entirely different roles in different departments. So growing them into cross athletes, which I was incredibly proud of. There are some employees there that have stepped into roles that they were not ready for, but we knew they could do it and we really supported them and they were tremendously successful. So I'm really proud of that.

Allison: Good answer. Is there a piece of conventional wisdom in HR that you actually disagree with?

Lisa: Yeah, I disagree that HR has to be entirely policy and operations. I think you absolutely have to have that in place. You have to have operations running smoothly. Otherwise, that just becomes a distraction where you can't do anything else successfully. And I think policies are necessary, but I think that they are your friend. And they are guardrails and you want to be consistent in what you're doing, absolutely. But they often drive the discussions to think, like listen, this is a good example, to think like, should we be doing something different? Is the policy outdated? Do we need to improve it?

‍So I think sometimes people get, and this actually is a good example, like you put your leave campaign in place and then you, you don't look at it anymore. Well, things evolve, you know, times evolve, et cetera. So, I'm a big fan of policy as your friend and policies are meant to be evolved over time as your organization grows and the needs of the company grow.

Allison: What is the best piece of career advice you've ever received?

Lisa: This is a good one. I share this a lot. Many people have, they know where they want to go on their career ladder. They want to be here. They're going to get there. But there are so many people I know who have literally driven their career by taking an opportunity that was there that they might not have expected, that they might not have ever thought of, that they might not think they're good at. And sometimes, often, people around you can see that you're going to be good at it and going for it. And so it's not always linear. Often it can be side to side in places you don't expect. But don't be afraid to take that opportunity that you see that you didn't ever expect and go for it. Go for it. You could always change the channel most of the time.

Allison: Love that. What's one thing motherhood has taught you that you bring into work?

Lisa: That's a great question. I should answer that in many ways. I think more than anything is that nothing stays the same and you are not going to control everything and so and you're never going to have perfection. I don't love waiting for perfection. I am a big fan of getting 85% and learning as you go. And you need to be nimble and you need to be agile. You need to have your broader picture in mind of what you're going against and what you your overall listen, my team has a vision in a brand as an HR team and we want to make sure we're always dead to that. But we've got to be agile and be able to change. You're not going to put it in place at home or in the workplace and not be evolving it often.

Allison: Yeah, I always say 80%. It's like diminishing the turn. Right. Exactly.

Lisa: Yeah, you're waiting forever. We're gonna wait forever to be 100%. And the thing is, even if you think it's 100%, let's say you think it is, you're gonna launch whatever it is and then you're still gonna iterate on it. You're never gonna just be, oh, done. So get it out there. Fail fast, learn, apply, and improve.

Allison: Right, totally. What is your go-to parenting hack when you're balancing work and home?

Lisa: Shut off time and be dedicated to it. I think it's hard to do. There's things that feel like it's got to be answered right now. It has to be addressed. Sometimes there is. But for the most part, the dedicated put it away for an hour so I can be in the moment. And then when I'm back in an hour doing whatever we're doing, I'm also in that moment. I think to be present in all places where you can really drives for a better outcome in both. Your kids feel it, they feel the difference, and think the work feels it.

Allison: Yep. This one is actually quite difficult. So I'm ending on a difficult one. What is one question you wish people would ask you about your work or about being a mom that you're usually not asked?

Lisa: People don't ask what's the hardest thing. And I have two answers to that. One is very simple, I think the lack of sleep is challenging, always has been, like you to get up and function in all places. And I think the other piece is that, you know, in the end, these people we're shepherding through life and, you know, we're molding them and shaping them. I think the hardest thing to realize is that in the end, I don’t know, maybe my kids are older now, so I really feel that, you know, in the end we are advisors, right? We are really shaping them and giving them, I really believe in giving them good values so they have a place to always go back to in terms of values and what they think about, but in the end they are their own people.

Allison: Yeah.

Lisa: And they are going to do what they want to do in the end. And I think that is a really challenging thing that, and especially as your kids get older, it's something I wish people asked. I wish people talked more about it because, yeah, like you have to really do the job by the time they get to high school, they're doing their own thing. And you've got to hope they've got the values instilled. They are going to make mistakes. You've got to hope that you have open communication and they're going to talk to you about challenges. And my many teenagers, if you get 50% of that, you're doing well. So I think that I find it to be the hardest thing that I just don't think we talk about enough. Like the reality is we are not controlling them as much as we think, you know?

Allison: Yeah. I've heard some people, researchers, I don't even know who says this, say that at the end of the day, friends matter so much more than the parents. And I think it's like the first time I heard that, that's scary, but it really talks to what you're describing, which is like, we don't control what's going on.

Lisa: Yeah. Control, like trying to make sure they have good influences, right? Like good values at home, good conversations at home and talking about situations and how do you handle it? And I do think, I mean, I do, I have definitely steered away from certain friend groups because that is, that's what's influential. Social media makes that so difficult. So you're never going to be able to stop that stream from them.

Allison: Right.

Lisa: So you've got to be able to have confidence that they are going to make some poor choices, but they're hopefully making mostly good choices in terms of how they're processing what they're seeing. And it just is exponentially more difficult for girls, no question. It just is. It just is.

Allison: Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you so much. I feel like I could keep you on and we could turn this into my own parenting therapy session because I feel like I could learn so much from you. This has been so interesting to hear. Well, I've really enjoyed hearing about theSkimm and the show, the show us your leaf campaign just because I have so much respect for everything that you all achieved there. And it's fun to get an inside scoop on what actually happened.

Lisa: Thank you! We learned from each other. It was a journey. What happened behind the scenes, I'm really happy you asked because it really was such an amazing moment for us. And again, it was like another moment of really being there for our audience and for women and what they need. And so we were deeply proud of it, but also just so gratified that we could be that source for them. So that's what we're there to do for our audience. So it was exciting. It was a lot of fun.

Allison: Yeah! Amazing. Well, thank you so much for your time.

Lisa: Thank you.

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