Succeeding at the highest levels on her own terms

What happens when the system isn’t built for you, but you rise to the top anyway?

Over the course of her career, Amnah Ajmal led teams across 11 countries, became CEO at 32 and challenged the norms of both corporate culture and motherhood. 

But her story isn’t just about climbing the ladder. It’s about the cost of ambition and what it takes to succeed as a woman and a parent in systems that weren’t designed for either.

Amnah is a globally recognized fintech executive, mom of three, and self-described “accidental success.” 

In this episode, she opens up about delaying motherhood, her struggle with postpartum depression and the invisible toll of being one of the only women in the room.

She also shares the infrastructure that allowed her to keep advancing in the corporate world and why her next chapter is about rewriting the rules of leadership so more women can thrive on their own terms.

Allison: Hi Amnah, thank you so much for joining us here today.

Amnah: Thank you.

Amnah: Thank you so much, Allison. It's a pleasure.

Allison: I would love to start off with you giving us your description of your career to date. How would you describe that in your own words?

Amnah: So first of all, I call myself an accidental success. Some people like it, some don't. But I do think I'm not an outcome of a process that a corporation followed or of a certain performance evaluation system or of a certain style of leadership. I think it was just by chance, by accident. And that's why you see very rarely women in financial services or banking or technology in senior leadership roles.

How I describe my journey is 11 countries, Asia, Europe, Middle East, Africa, US. I've lived and worked in 11 countries across three multinationals. I've been fortunate to become a leader very early in my age. I was 28 when I got my first people leadership role, managing 300 people with only four years of experience.

And I was in my twenties and my director was in their forties. I was a CEO at the age of 32 managing 3000 people. So I think those were the leaders who took chances on me. So I just like to pay it back. First, I thought it's about creating more leaders and giving it back in a way that helps people do bigger and better things.

But then I think slowly my focus and purpose completely shifted towards women because in the last seven or eight years I just realized that women are disproportionately disadvantaged and that's something that I would really like to change especially that I'm a mom and my daughter has the choices that I did not have.

Allison: What stage in your career did you become a mother?

Amnah: Very late. I, and this is something that actually I talked to women about, you know, the biological clock and the career clock are in direct conflict with each other. So there was a time when, I mean, not that long ago that, you know, there was a huge pressure on women. There were no advancements in biotech to say that you could freeze your eggs or I also financially, not everyone can afford it.

It was just luck that actually, coincidence that I had my first child at the age of 36 and the second and third together twins when I was 39. But I was already a very senior leader, you know? So my infrastructure at work was very different. Having an executive assistant, a chief of staff, a direct team, if I can't travel, I can send my direct report, someone senior enough to talk to a CEO of a big firm, If I have to go because I have to pick up my kid from school, he or she is not well, my assistant can change my calendar.

You don't have that if you're having your kid, let's say at the age of 25 or 26, when you're still not in the senior leadership. And then I think that is a very critical few promotions for you that you miss out on. And I think it impacts your confidence, it impacts a lot of levels. I think in my case, I had given up a lot in my life to have that career. So for me, yes, I always wanted to have kids, but it was always after I've achieved financial independence and some success in my career.

Allison: So this was an intentional decision to sort of focus on your career, get as far as you could get before becoming a parent. Yeah. What then, so you'd already become a CEO before you had children, you have your, you start expanding your family. Tell me about those parental leaves and what impact, if any, they had on your career after you had your children.

Amnah: Absolutely. Yes.

Amnah: So I think the first one I would say was complete…like I'm not connected to my family and my husband has very limited connection with his family. I thought at least that every woman gives birth. And I think we have normalized it so much that every woman gives birth and then she's pumping at work and she's going back to work. You know, that's so normal. Right. 

So I did a pretty stupid thing. I changed countries and I changed companies and moved without my husband while I was expecting my first child. I went from Dubai to the U.S. to run Mastercard's largest region for product and innovation while I was expecting. Lived in seven different accommodations. I was like eight months pregnant, moving apartments, houses. My husband was still going up and down because his job in the U.S. did not happen.

Allison: My gosh. Wow.

Amnah: I just thought like every woman does it, it's normal, No one talked to me about postpartum depression. I did not know it was a thing. I had a delayed postpartum depression, which was like, I think my daughter was like eight months old or so when it was diagnosed. So I was still giving a thousand percent at work because I was chosen by the company to come from a completely different place to the U.S. to fix certain things, right?

I took two and a half months of maternity leave. But it was just that first experience where so much was happening. I was waiting for my husband's move to happen. He was going up and down. We bought a house. There were lots of changes at work that I was doing. It was a big job. 

And I just think I underestimated that entire journey and there were little things that I realized I was naive or stupid whatever way word you want to use like I wanted to have an elective c-section which in U.S. is not a common thing right so I remember my gynecologist asking me why and I said I just it's it's like I've seen live labor of 24 hours 36 hours I would rather have control over it so it's better for me right and then I know when I delivered my daughter a nurse would come and she would say, so what problem was there that you had a C-section?

I'm like, no, I chose it. And she's like, why would you do that to yourself? And I felt horrible. And then I wanted to stop breastfeeding because I wanted to go back to work and I was not comfortable with pumping at work. And then again, it was like, you should be grateful that you have such a great supply and you instead want to stop breastfeeding your child. Why would you deprive your child? So, you know, there's so many things that happen. And I think motherhood is so glamorized that you just come back to work and everything is great. No one talks about these things. No one prepares you for these things. Like as a working mom, your body has changed. Your emotions have changed. Your hormones have changed. I mean, you gave birth to a human being who came out of you, you know? I mean, the first time when the nurse gave me the baby, I'm like, what am supposed to do with it? Like, what if I drop it? You know? And then going back to work two and a half months, it's just I think it's just way too early.

Allison: Right.

Amnah: So yeah, it was a very, very tough journey. Now that I look back at it, I would not have done certain things, you know, the way I did it. I think I overestimated it far too much.

Allison: What's funny is I think, I talk to a lot of women that almost have this sense of control. Like they struggle with, you have a child and it's kind of for many women, the first time that you can't control, right? Like you can't control the hormones and how you're feeling and if you get postpartum depression or anxiety. And that's really hard for a lot of people that have taken control over their career and their lives. And if you work hard enough, you'll just fix something. And this is like the first time where

Amnah: Yes. Correct.

Allison: It doesn't matter how hard you work, you're not going to be able to change some of those circumstances. So it's so interesting to hear that. At what stage in your career did you look around and think, there are no other women around me?

Amnah: I would say the last five to six years played a very critical role because it was almost like even if there were women around, they were like in the background, you know, like they were not in the leading functions. They were not interacting with the clients. They were not leading the P&Ls. I'm not undermining their job. I'm extremely respectful of what they are doing. But I think

If you look at any industry, there's support functions and then they're leading P &L functions. So the pressure of the P &L that you have to deliver is quite stressful, given that corporations always want more than last year, no matter how great the last year was. Having women around me in functions like HR and legal, but they were not actively engaged in the dialogues that we were having to run the business.

Allison: Mm-hmm.

Amnah: That was primarily only men. Meaning, out of my 300 clientele that I was managing, 99% were men. Which I think is okay, till I met one female client and I just realized we connected so differently. It was also interesting, she had twins, I had twins, but it was almost like our journeys, our challenges, our opportunities were still similar and I could not have that kind of a conversation with a man.

Allison: Right.

Amnah: And at that time, I really realized not only the internal world of the corporate, but even the external world, because I was dealing with many industries, like other than I would say fashion and retail, most were heavily male dominated and I had men as my clients. And, you know, even this expectation from women that if you are in a B2B industry and you are managing clients, you're supposed to dine and wine with them and like...

For me, it was like I had to carve out my own path. First of all, I don't drink. I don't eat a lot. I don't know about cars or F1. I don't drive. I don't play any kind of sport. Yeah, I can tell the difference between soccer or rugby, but that's pretty much about it. But I'm not the one who's going to be jumping up and down for one team or the other. I mean, from that perspective, you know, managing clientele, you have to work your way in a different way than men would. Right. 

So women generally tend to build business in a different way than men do. Also, you have a lot of events that happen in the evening. Whereas if you want to put your kids to bed, I don't think that's a great thing. And if you're invisible, there's so much research done around this factor of visibility in the social environment that helps you get promoted. And you have to make a choice. Are you going to be there to put your kids to bed or are you going to attend this event?

So I think it just keeps on getting harder and harder as we have kids, especially even if I want to be a hands-on mom. What can I do? Put my kids to bed. That's the only time I have with them. Because if you look at weekday mornings, I think every kid hates their parents. Like, hurry up, wear this, do that, buckle this, buckle that. It's like instructions to get them out of the door to the nursery or school.

The only time you can bond as a working parent is in the evening when you put your kids to bed. So it's hard.

Allison: Here's my question though, because I totally resonate with that. Do we think that this is going to change as the prevalence of dual income households increases? Like, I just feel like don't fathers also want that experience and what would it take for the norms to be different? Like, maybe there is wining and dining at night, but it's at 8 p.m. and not 6:30 p.m. when the kids are still awake. It's just so fascinating to me why that still exists because I completely agree with you.

Amnah: Correct.

Allison: But also all of the dads I know also don't want to bedtime.

Amnah: Yes, yes. No, you're totally right. And I was having a chat with my husband and there was a class which was called Mommy and Me. It was my daughter's ballet class. And I took her once. It was during a weekday at 4 p.m. It was on Wednesdays. And I was so frustrated because I just could not manage her. She was the only child who was disrupting the entire class, you know, running to the socket or pulling some other kid's skirt. 

And it was like she was a distraction to the whole class and I could not manage it. So I told my husband I can't manage it in the class. He's like, OK, I would do it. And he did it for two years. And I asked him, when you leave your work, he's also in banking and he's at a senior position. So I'm like, do you tell people when you're leaving that, I'm going to take my daughter off her ballet? He's like, no, I don't. But I think people know it. I said it would be great if you start talking about it loudly. And he's like, what does it matter?

said it matters because it was normalized for women. So I have seen even fathers to your point who want to be actively present. I don't think they realize that they need to talk loudly about it. So it gets normalized for women. And I think that's very important that they start talking loudly about it and openly. And when they are the decision makers, they try to think about it. 

Allison: Right. Yeah. And it's funny because I've seen my friendships evolve where if I'm ever going to hang out with my girlfriends, it's always after bedtime. Always. And so when will the sort of professional world follow that? Because I just see this so much in my personal life and even with my husband and his friends, everything starts after 7:30 because that's when the kids are in bed. 

So I'm curious to hear about you…aside from you mentioned luck, but I don't believe this was just luck. I think you were able to achieve all of the success through obviously many different reasons, hard work, intelligence, etc. What are some of the structures or people who also created that environment that allowed you to thrive and succeed at work, whether it's a manager, partner, policies at work? I'm so curious what the other things would be.

Amnah: First of all, I think many people say that the most important decision that you would make in your life, especially if you want to have a career, is your decision of marriage or partnership. That is just so critical. I find it incredible that women would take pride in saying that, yeah, my husband can do laundry. I mean, so what? 

I think that's the most important critical decision. I remember so well that I was in a shop and we're going towards the elevator. I think my boys were like three and my daughter was like five. And there's a woman who looked at my husband and she's like, I remember you from the flight. And you know, she was mentioning a flight that she took like maybe five months back. My husband took that flight alone with my daughter, right?

And she's like, you were so great with her. Then I asked my husband, which flight was this? He's like, remember when I took her alone to the UK? How many times have I traveled alone with my kid? Would anyone remember me for that? So I think it's just like so much change needs to happen for this thing to be normalized, right?

Allison: Right.

Amnah: Coming back to your question, I think a couple of things. First of all, of course, my partner's support matters a lot. Our calendars of travel are in each other's outlook. So we make sure one of us is always there to put them to bed. I mean, there are strange things that we do. Like I would take a 12-hour trip to New York to attend a particular meeting and be back because he has to fly somewhere. He once had a two-week off-site meeting in Hong Kong. He came back for the weekend just to put kids to bed.

You have to take those decisions. That is how a true partnership really, really works. Like on Saturdays, I really want to sleep to catch up on the whole week. So he has the kids from like literally 6am-11am. You know, so I think that partnership is important. 

The second most important thing I would say is leaders who take a risk on you. You can always go post a job, get external applicants, interview someone based on an hour and then recruit them or take a risk on a woman who's like half ready and say that, I'm going to get her there. And I had those leaders. I mean, when I was offered the job in Poland, I was like 28 years old and I had four years of experience and all my direct reports of that particular role were in their 40s and there were 300 people. And first I thought it was a mistake. I'm like, why would you ask me to interview for this job? And I remember my boss was like, why not? And I'm like, oh, I'm going to be fired.

Because even if I get the job, look at all these people, look at the structure. I don't even speak their language. I don't know the regular. I don't know the market. And he was like, so what if you get fired? I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, you can get a job again. You're just 28. What's the issue? And it stuck with me. It just taught me about risk taking and courage is such a critical part of your leadership journey. And he took that bet on me.

From a personal perspective, of course I paid a very heavy price because no one in my family had ever worked. So when I decided to work, it was not like, yeah, you graduate out of college, you look for a job. No, it was a choice that I burned bridges with my family, left my country and home forever and decided to have a career. Which meant I would really have no relationships left with them, no place to go back to if I failed. So my stakes were very high compared to, let's say, my other peers.

So from that perspective, maybe now I think in hindsight, my perseverance was significantly higher than other people. And at a certain point, I was able to reframe my crucible and say that, okay, maybe my life is hard and I had to give up a lot to have a career in financial independence. There's a purpose behind it and leadership is a privilege. Can I give it back to people? Can I help them achieve their dreams and what they want to achieve?

So I would say those were the couple of factors. And the second thing is, I mean, because I had taken such a big risk of leaving my family, leaving my home, risks like changing a country from Turkey to Egypt, London to Hungary, Hungary to Poland, Singapore to Malaysia, Malaysia to Dubai, Dubai to... Those risks were very little, which I think maybe to another person would be a huge risk. You don't know the language of the country, how you're going to set up yourself again, you know.

You start from scratch when you change a company or when you change a country. All those risks were very little compared to the one that I had already taken when I was in my 20s.

Allison: That's such a good point, that everything is based on perspective. You also mentioned when we spoke last time that you left the U.S. in large part around what are the support structures to be having young children and continuing in your career. Can you say more about that?

Amnah: Yes. Gosh. I mean, I don't want to talk about the U.S. health care system, but that was one of the reasons because I delivered my daughter in one of the best hospitals in New York. I had a lovely gynecologist, going to that receptionist who had like from floor to ceiling files and I was one of those files, those paper files, you know.

And after a year, I got like a $10 collection bill because some nurse came and saw my daughter and I didn't pay for it. The direct meal must have been costing significantly more and the collection agency that they went to to collect that bill. So I think the health care system is going to five different places. I was having twins. So they were mono-died twins. It was a high risk pregnancy. I was 39.

People, there were even healthcare professionals who told me, you didn't conceive it naturally, so would you like to abort it? Which was like for me, my God, like I know twins run in my family and my mom didn't even know that she was having twins. Yeah, of course she was younger and I'm older, so I understand that risk, like I think one was that big reason. Second, having one child and managing the childcare system, the support, which is available in the U.S., is hard enough to go from one to three.

Like it's impossible the way the childcare support system works. And I'm still shocked why not a lot of multinationals would have a childcare facility at the office premises itself. It really bothers me. Why is that not a possibility? I mean, there were Uber drivers who were giving me a ride when I was going to the office from my home when I was expecting my first. And they would be like, how long is your maternity leave?

And at least I was working for a good company. I was like, it's three months. And the lady would tell me, I was working here. I got five days off. I just think that the CVS queues, like my doctor would give me a prescription. And then I have to go to that particular CVS and have to stand in that queue. And I reached the queue, you know, 75 kgs of me. And then it's like, it didn't come to this one.

Allison: Right. Yeah.

Amnah: You know, and here I am, like whatever my doctor gives a prescription is on my national ID and it automatically goes to the pharmacy that I want and the pharmacy on WhatsApp delivers it to me at home. So, you know, it's a hell lot of a difference. It's huge. And I think as a working mom you would know that we talked about it.

It's not only the work environment, it's also the environment outside, you know, that makes a difference. The healthcare, the education, the childcare support that's available to you. Because as a mom, I almost feel we become another person, you know? I used to tell my husband that I really love him. I mean, now that I have children, like…I would throw him in a river in a heartbeat if I have to save my kids, you know? So you don't know just what love is until you become a mom.

That just becomes the center of your life and your first priority. I'm sure for a father too, but I'm not a father, so I can't speak on their behalf. And I just don't think so in the U.S., the infrastructure, the healthcare, the corporate world is there to support it, sadly so.

Allison: Right. Yeah, I mean, I think about the childcare situation, and I'm so lucky because our second is about to go to public school, which solves a lot of problems. And hopefully we get into aftercare. I mean, there's a lot of if then that needs to happen. But I do think that it's funny because years and years ago, I was talking to my co-founder and one of the ideas we had was to start a business that would basically go to these huge companies and convince them to put daycares in their office buildings. And we decided not to do it because we thought this sounds like maybe an uphill battle that like, doesn't this exist? But we had the same thought of like, if this is working parents' biggest challenge, and actually it would have been a great idea for a lot of companies to do that because what we found in some of our, and we didn't research this enough, but some of the research shows that the value to the company is not just short term. It's not just, they can stay a little bit later and their kid is right there. It's like, actually people won't quit because they don't want to lose childcare. Like they'll actually work harder to stay there because of how valuable it is because it's more expensive than their mortgage, you know? So let's talk a little bit about your book. You've spent the last year plus writing a book. What is it about? What do hope people do when they get the chance to read it?

Amnah: Thank you. So I hope the true change makers, especially the women, a lot of them who do drop out of the workforce or give up because they don't feel that the corporate world is designed for them, would resonate with the challenges that originate over there, but also think about how they can overcome them. That's one target segment.

I hope the CEOs of the corporate world would realize that, while you are there for the profits, you are there to create shareholder value. But for the future, let's say the next two decades, the same leadership playbook would not work that worked in the past, what got us here. There are lots of changes. It's not only technology. It's Gen Z, such a massive part of the population that still remains excluded. So if you have to keep up with the technology, if you have to recruit the talent that's upcoming, and if you have to make sure that women are part of your leadership team, then you need to change the rules of the leadership. And that's what the book talks about. And I hope it can make a difference in someone's life. And that would just make me feel happy.

Allison: Amazing. And when is it out? Do you have an official date?

Amnah: My god, I hope so between September and November.

Allison: Okay, great. You're also, you left Mastercard, you're starting your own business. So now you have the opportunity to define the way that you work. What do you hope you're able to create for yourself? What will feel super different to you than working in any corporate America environment?

Amnah: So, you know, it's very funny. I was reading research that's like everywhere popping up on LinkedIn. That's how so many women want to become SMEs, right? And they don't want to work for corporations. And people are commenting, yeah, because women are more purpose led and all of that. But it's also because corporations are not a fit for women. You know, it's not only that they're purpose led and all of that. So I would love to leave a legacy, which I mean, my colleagues and my team at Mastercard tells me and they send me this beautiful book that they kind of created for me that I've left a legacy. But I would like to create a legacy of a culture that truly, truly makes women shine and go and reach to the top and do it on their own terms, not on the terms that are written by someone or they're outdated or they're set by a society that just did not know that they would be there.

Allison: I love that. Last question. What, you know, we've talked a lot about some of the challenges in business more broadly, in corporate America, and sort of the work environment today, but what inspires you when you look at working parenthood? What are the things that you get a lot of hope from when you look at the way that maybe younger generations are pushing new ideas, new boundaries at work as they become parents.

Amnah: I think the idea that your own well-being is prioritized. I think our generation was like, I don't know, somehow giving so much to work. It was not just a high sense of achievement, but it was like work and the corporate world occupied so much of our self, our time, our passion that I think we always put our own well-being and our own health at the back foot. I think first of all, the new generation,

Allison: Mm-hmm.

Amnah: I won't even say new. I would say like, let's say 10 years younger than me and I'm a millennial. would say they prioritize their own health and wellbeing, you know, small things like I've always had lunch in the middle of the meeting and I think I'm able to eat at an incredibly amazing pace. I can finish a meal that normal people would take like 30 minutes and less than one minute, you know. But prioritizing little things like having a nice meal in the middle of your work day.

Allison: Right.

Amnah: The whole idea of a portfolio career, which never existed in our time, was that I could do three, four things and not be tied to a corporation. And I think our generation, and I'm sorry, I'm putting it together with me, but our generation was like, you know, you have to work for these big multinationals. You have to have this corporate ladder. I don't think that that mindset exists anymore. And I think that's a very, very good thing that you have your destiny in your own hands.

Even the number of entrepreneurs that I see, even though the VC world is not as friendly to them and founders, and probably I'll experience that. But the fact that you're thinking about it, here's a technology. I can learn it, even though I didn't read it at school, because most of us did not. And I can make my own business out of it. I think that's really, really great. I I remember breaking a leg yet going to work, nine months pregnant, till my last day going to work.

I told you about the crazy stuff changing countries and companies in the middle of all of this. I think it's inspiring to see that the next generation of leaders is prioritizing their own health, their well-being. I think we just missed out on that.

Allison: I love that. I think that's exactly right. And I think that a lot of people, because we are in the same generation, I think a lot of people our age are also not, they haven't totally missed the boat. Like I see a lot of people, our generation saying, okay, I am going to leave this really, like I've achieved the success that we all thought we wanted when we were 22. And now there's a different way. And I think it's only going to get better and easier to do that.

Amnah: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Allison: You're right with like AI, the ability to work from home, the hybrid remote world, it just changes a lot about what we're able to do. So I think you're exactly right. And I think it does seem very different. And even for me as a small business owner, I have a huge competitive advantage that I can hire anyone in any place. I don't have to find people right in my backyard and have them live close to where I am and commute into work, I can get the best talent for what I'm looking for. And I think that's a huge shift that we're just not accustomed to from when we were younger. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for your time today. I think this was super helpful. 

I am very inspired by your career. I think, especially, not only your career, but also your future trajectory and the way that you're sort of shifting things and...throwing everything up in the air and seeing where it lands. When I became a mother, I really didn't have any role models. I didn't see any examples around me. 

And so it's really important to me to be able to share these stories and to give some inspiration to parents, but especially women who may be thinking, what am I about to do? Can I continue going up the career ladder? Do I have to like, I think there are a lot of women that feel like you have to be set. You have to have figured it out by the time you have children. And even you felt that way to a certain extent. And yet look at you now, you continued to move, you continued to change, you're trying something totally new. So thank you so much for sharing your story. I think it's really, really powerful.

Amnah: Thank you so much. And one last thing that I would say to all the women, surround yourself with people who can uplift you. There's always a way and you can do it. Just don't give up. Once out of the workforce, whether it's the corporate world or your own business, it's just so hard to come back.

Allison: Great advice. Thank you so much. Likewise.

Amnah: Yeah. Thank you so much, Allison. Great talking to you.